This is The Perfect RIA, in case you didn’t know. Bringing you all the strategies to help your business grow. Are you happy? Are you satisfied? Are you hanging on the edge of your seat? Sit back and listen in while you feel the beat. Another myth bites the dust…

Matthew Jarvis:   Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the perfect RIA podcast. I’m your cohost, Matthew Jarvis. And my good cohost Micah Shilanski has already died from the coronavirus, so he has not died from the coronavirus. Micah, how are you today buddy?

Micah Shilanski:  I’m doing good up here in Alaska. No infections just yet. Even though we keep getting these planes full of people that are, but no, we’re doing pretty good. And you’re in the hot spot, right? So, which is good. I’m going to take over The Perfect RIA, and I figure in like two weeks, after your quarantine and Jackie kicks you out of the house. It’s a good planning.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah. Yeah. Well, they say Seattle is the epicenter of the Corona panic. So like every business has shut down, my kid’s school is shut down. Even though no one has the virus, but in any way.

Micah Shilanski:  Did you get a refund on … you do private school, so how does that work out?

Matthew Jarvis:   I did ask for a refund so they shut down my kid’s private school that we pay a lot of money for. And so I emailed the the headmaster and I said, “The health department told you not to shut down and yet you shut down anyway. And as a parent who believes in science, I’m asking for a refund for this day’s tuition.” So we’ll see how that goes.

Micah Shilanski:  Okay, perfect. I think it’s a fair question.

Matthew Jarvis:   I think it is. I think it is. Well, all ranting on the Coronavirus aside, definitely the Coronavirus or, and I want you to substitute for the TPR nation, the Corona virus with apocalypse dujour, Nick Murray likes to say. Whatever panic rolls down the pipe next, you need to be ready to address that issue with clients. Because panics like this, it’s really an opportunity, and I hate to say that because that’s a bit of kind of an overused cliche, right? Never wasted crises. But it’s a time to figure out which clients are not a 100% confident in your plan, right? Which clients are saying, “Hey Mike, I told you I was confident in the plan, but now that there’s this hiccup, I’m actually pretty nervous about this.”

Micah Shilanski:  I think that’s a really great point to highlight from that. Now keep in mind this doesn’t mean you a bad job planning and this means you did a bad job communicating it. Just take some ownership inside of this and really understand this. With this particular client, I need to pivot the way I’m articulating something. I need to change something with this client because I know they’re worried about X, that’s going to be there. And we’re going to go through some examples that both Jarvis and I have had this last week or so talking about concerns about this and what are some some best things that you should do.

Micah Shilanski:  But one of the things that I think is out there is, not arguing with your clients about what’s causing the market volatility. Yes, none of us really know to be quite Frank, there’s a lot of talk right now that has nothing to do with the virus. It’s actually about political and who the front rotors are and some of the democratic side and what issues that’s going to have. And again, not getting political here, but we could spin this any direction we want to spin this, that’s not the point of the conversation. The point of the conversation with clients is to help them understand the longterm strategy to make sure they’re committed to it.

Micah Shilanski:  Because as we all know, as planners in the longterm, you’re going to win by staying the course. And by making radical emotional changes, it’s going to have a negative effect. And I think, Jarvis, this brings up the question of an IQ versus EQ, right? This is not an intellectual question. When you’re dealing with clients, this is an emotional question that you’re dealing with clients and you got to get to the root of that.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah, 100% it’s an EQ, because as you could have alluded to, none of us can say what impact the coronavirus or whatever other apocalypse is going to have on the market, how long it will take to recover. If this is the start of a recession or just a hiccup. I mean we can argue that and we can sort of lay out the probabilities of that, but none of us knows for a certainty. None of us can say for a certainty where the market will be at tomorrow, let alone three weeks from today. So it is, it’s 100% of EEQ discussion.

Micah Shilanski:  Okay, so how do we have this, right? Let’s start off with a client gives you a call, let’s kind of do a little bit of role-playing somewhat so to speak, right? So a client gives you a call and they’re panicked. That’s going to be there. So have you gotten this type of call? What did the client say? What’s your responses? Et cetera.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yep. So I had a client call this week, we’ll call her Sue, because all my clients, Dave and Sue, or Bob and Sue, whatever it is. She called, she said, “Hey Matthew, I don’t want to hear that this is just another bump in the road.” She said, “Hey, this is really unprecedented.” And this gal is a very intelligent, she was a high level consultant in her career. She said, “Matthew, this could really have disruptions to the supply chain that could have a trickle effect throughout the economy.”

Matthew Jarvis:   And I said, “Sue, you know what, I can’t argue that. It definitely could. I don’t think there’s a high probability of that. It definitely could. So she said, “Well Matthew, what should we do?” That’s always, everybody’s, “What should we do? I want to be reactive.” And so the first thing I did, and I do this every time, I said, “Well first I want to provide some perspective. All this craziness the last couple of weeks has set the market back four months, just four months. In fact, over our relationship we’re still up $700,000 of growth. We gave back 70,000 of that. Just want to put that in perspective before we go any further.”

Micah Shilanski:  Now you knew that because when the client called in, they were immediately transferred to your desk and you picked up the phone or you answered the call yourself and you knew all that? Right? Now, of course I’m, I’m making fun of this, but I want to bring up another point which is really critical about being prepared for conversations, and what I don’t want our TPR nation in this year, you were really prepared for that because it followed your process. The client called your office, they spoke to Coleen. They were concerned about the market. They wanted to talk to you, a scheduled time was put on your calendar with the client’s concerns for you to call them back.

Micah Shilanski:  So you knew what their concerns were. Then Jarvis went back and he didn’t just know this stuff off the top of his head-

Matthew Jarvis:   No. Not yet.

Micah Shilanski:  … you looked, and you pulled this together that says, “Hey, give me a year to date. Give me an inception to date. Let’s see what’s going on. Let’s see what else is happening in the client’s life.” So you’re highly prepared for that meeting. Okay.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yes.

Micah Shilanski:  Sorry, I just to jump in here, there’s two little things. That was the first thing. One Jarvis is highly prepared for this meeting. The second thing, and he glossed over it. When the client was starting to articulate the concern, you didn’t argue, in fact, you said the opposite. “You know what, Sue, I can’t argue with that.” And you let her vent her concern.

Matthew Jarvis:   Totally. Because I want to stress, and I don’t want to beat this up too much, that if I had just answered that call, right, if they could call in straight to me, I would have been scrambling. I would’ve been trying to pull it out. But I looked at those notes. I went back and looked at the last time we had met. This particular client we had met some time ago, when they were concerned about the trade war with China, and we had agreed at that time to not go more conservative.

Matthew Jarvis:   So I said, “Hey, do you remember when we met back in may last year? And we talked about moving money to cash, but we agreed to stay invested. We’re up $100,000 because we agreed to stay in the market.” So again, it goes to” being prepared and being able to communicate that in terms that the client can relate to. I’m not going to say, Hey, we’re up three and a half percent with a standard deviation at 14.”-

Micah Shilanski:  What does that mean? Right.

Matthew Jarvis:   That means nothing.

Micah Shilanski:  Okay, so the client expressed their concern that was there, that this is happening, that this is unprecedented, that’s there. She’s getting concerned. So then you put it in perspective a little bit, saying there’s only four months of value, you’re still up, et cetera.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yep.

Micah Shilanski:  What’s next?

Matthew Jarvis:   Then I want to start soliciting out from the client, what do you need to feel more comfortable? So I say, “Sue, with all this craziness going on, what would make you feel comfortable enough to stick to our longterm plan?” This took a couple iterations of this questioning, but she finally went on, she said, “You know what, Matthew, my granddaughters are starting college in five years. I’m really worried that the market’s going to dip and I won’t have the funds to pay for their tuition in five years when hey start school.

Matthew Jarvis:   Now again, I can’t intellectually argue that the market may or may not be at a high point in five years. So I said, “Great, Sue, what if we carved out the money for your grandchildren’s education? We just carved that out in a separate account, not exposed to the market, just in bonds and fixed income. Would you feel comfortable sticking to the plan then? She says, “Matthew, yep, 100%.” Now, the great news for us, we already had that money carved out. It just wasn’t in a separate account. And this is again an IQ EEQ. I could’ve said, “Well, hey Sue, remember we carved that money out? It’s earmarked in there. Can’t you remember that?” That doesn’t help.

Matthew Jarvis:   I said, “Hey, what if we opened a new fidelity account? Doesn’t cost us anything. It’ll still be in your name. We’ll just earmark it as grandchildren’s education. Would you feel more comfortable then?”

Micah Shilanski:  Okay, so I really like what you did right there, right? Because as you said, it took a few iterations and this is the most important thing. You have to get to the real concern that the clients have. And sometimes this can be really hard, because sometimes they don’t even know what their real concern is. What’s really making them concerned about the markets, and you know what, it’s not the stock market moving up and down. It’s how it affects them personally. What are their personal goals? And in your case it was the college funding. And this is another reason I’m a huge fan of buckets of money, for this reason right here, right? Carving out a separate account. I love earmarking it in that perspective. I love having a separate account and nicknaming it. They know exactly what it’s for. You stick it in that fixed income account.

Micah Shilanski:  On a distribution standpoint with clients as well. My clients that are specially more worrisome, we have a separate distribution account that’s just in cash or fixed income, and I tell them not to look at the other accounts when the market’s volatile. Don’t even look at it, because it doesn’t matter. Right? It’s, it’s more of a longterm focus. Look at that distribution bucket and then you’re not going to see that volatility. So the really big takeaway, I think, here for our nation, the TPR nation, get to the client’s real concern by understanding and by listening.

Micah Shilanski:  Don’t argue with them. I don’t care if it’s whatever the, you know, apocalypse does. Yours is, do not argue it. There’s no point in that. Find out what the real concern is, and then how do you work with them to keep achieving their goals?

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah. I love that. You know, a tool I use a lot on this is … Well, really with any client is, on the outside, how long do you think it will take for this issue to resolve itself? The Coronavirus, the political administration, interest rates, whatever it is, and they say a number, “I think it will take two years to resolve itself.” Okay, perfect. Great news. We have five years of income in that bucket. We call it a war chest in our office, Micah, you call it a bucket in yours, doesn’t really matter as long as you’re consistent with the terminology.

Matthew Jarvis:   Great news, we have five years and then I translate that, “Hey, have your one point $5 million portfolio, about 400,000 of that is totally protected from the markets and stock markets. Is that a big enough buffer for you?? “Actually, Matthew, I forgot about that. That’s a great buffer actually.” Perfect. That’s why we’re here.

Micah Shilanski:  Okay, great. And clients will react how you react. So what is your tone in that conversation? Had you have anxiety, are you ramped up or are you concerned, are you watching CNN, right? I mean, what’s going on? Are you watching the markets and reacting from it or are you having a nice calm conversation? You need to be calm. You need to be the fixed point in the crisis to help those clients get through it. And this should be the rare one, right? I mean this was like a couple of clients that call out of a hundred this shouldn’t be the norm.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah, yeah. I think I got two or three out of 150. To your point, Micah, if you’re getting a lot of these calls, you need to step back, take extreme ownership. Micah, you lead with this, and I think it’s critical. Sometimes it’s easy to say, “Oh that client, they’re not very smart. They must be watching too much CNN.” Extreme ownership somewhere, I as the advisor did not properly train them, did not properly articulate the strategy.

Micah Shilanski:  And this could highlight to a graduation conversation. If you are unable to effectively communicate consistently with that client, they are not a good fit. You can’t help them achieve their goals. You need to graduate them, i.e. fire them. Graduate them to someone else’s relationship. I like to send them to this little place outside of Seattle. Great guy that I know. So I give the, his cell phone number. That’s what I do.

Matthew Jarvis:   If you missed that joke, that’s a subtle reference to sending them to me.

Micah Shilanski:  That’s right.

Matthew Jarvis:   Well, I think this ties into a bigger thing about having clients be ready for downturns in the market. Downturns in the market cannot be a surprise for a client. Every time the market turns down, the ideal scenario is they say, “Wow, Micah told us this was going to happen.” Now again, Micah nor myself will tell them, “Hey, the market’s going to turn down in March because it always does.” We’re just saying, hey, we’re always ready. I like to say we have an all weather portfolio. It’s set up for the good times and it’s set up for the bad times. We can never be surprised by the market.

Micah Shilanski:  You know, Jarvis in a lot of my conversations, because I’m in surge right now, and so a lot of my conversations with my clients … and I’ve gotten a couple of worry calls, but besides that, all of my meetings, my clients have been telling me the strategy, right? This is great. I love it when it’s there. They are articulating back to me what our plan is. So they still have a concern, but they said just as your point, right, “You know what Micah, we know you said X, Y and Z. We have our cash bucket that’s here for distributions. And you always said, we got to be prepared for a three to five year downturn in the market. And I know we have this.” And they’re saying it, they still want to be reassured and I go back through the strategy with them.

Micah Shilanski:  This is a huge success, right? So you’re going to have, those should be most of your conversations. And then the other one’s about, again, re articulating that and referencing it back to certain points. I love to go back to 2018 in this example saying, what happened in December of 2018 I love to go back to 2008 because I really think that’s a lot of people’s concern is the market dropping that much as well. So bringing it back to those examples, and how the markets have recovered, how they have personally recovered in that period of time, because we didn’t panic, right? We didn’t sell everything in December of 2018 and look at how much money they made because we did not very important things to bring up.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah, I really liked that referencing back. We used to reference back to the financial crisis, but that’s quite a time back. But yeah, to go back and say, hey, do you remember the end of 2018 when the market fell 20% in just a few weeks? And how everyone on the news was saying, “Wow, this is the start of the recession, the start of the bare market?” And we said, “Hey, remember we’ve got these buckets, we’re ready for this.” And then 2019 was a gangbuster year. So yeah, just draw them back just a little bit. Never in a condescending way. Never like your mom said, “Hey, don’t you remember? Don’t you remember when you put your hand on the fire?” Nope. It’s just like as we’re friends reminiscing about good old times.

Micah Shilanski:  Yes, yes. Very, very important. And also, when people get concerned about this being the new normal, right? Or I love that apocalypse dujour, crisis dujour. That’s really there. I mean, it could be from the hyper trading, the war in China, the political elections, I mean, whatever it is, people always think, oh no, this is the new normal, and the reality is this is the way it’s always been. It has always been like this. The numbers are slightly different, but it’s always been like this and really making sure clients understand that by referencing back to other things that we all forget.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah. You know, a great tool that I use for this, Mike, in fact, we’re actually going to use it during this coming surge that we’re starting next week. Or I guess when this episode airs, we’ll be in the middle of it, but the JP Morgan guide to the market, there’s a page in there that shows the market’s annualized return and then it shows the market’s biggest decline during the course of the year. And I love to go back to 2011 which is when the U.S. Credit got downgraded. The market started and ended at the exactly the same point. It was kind of a statistical anomaly, but during the course of that, it fell 20%.

Matthew Jarvis:   So I would just like to remind clients of this and I say, “Hey, average decline is 14, 15% so until it hits that, I’m not even going to bat an eye. That’s just like rain in Seattle.” And that’s an example we use here. If you live in a sunny climate, I wouldn’t use that one. But I say, “When it rains in Seattle, I don’t think about it.” I’m not like, wow, it’s raining in Seattle, what a surprise. The market goes down, there’s no surprise.

Micah Shilanski:  You know, and another thing to do is, working with clients, is encourage them to stop looking. Now at first when we started doing this, our compliance kind of freaked out. So we had to work through that one. But encourage them literally to quit looking at it. And a great example to have is, people always believe that real estate always goes up in value, right? We can argue that one all day long. The reality, I think, that the reason they believe that is because they buy a home and they don’t sell for 20 years.

Micah Shilanski:  They don’t look at the value for a year at best, because it’s a tax assessment. Really, they’re not looking at the value for 15 or 20 years at a shot. So it gives this false impression that the market’s always go up in value. So you can relate it back to those things. How often do we look at your home value increasing? Once a year, great. Look at your portfolios once a year, right? I mean bring it back to something they can understand, but focus on them not looking, especially when everyone else is talking about it.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yep. Mike, I want to circle back around and not to beat this horse, but circle back around and talk toward beginning. You’ve got to have a system in place, and perhaps we’re transitioning to action, I’m sure. You need to have a system in place for inbound client concerns and you as an advisor need to be prepared for that call. So, we just did about this example I gave earlier … and I’ve done this enough times, right, Mike? You know, we’ve done this a lot of times, but earlier in my career, I would, before that call, I would have spent five or 10 minutes visualizing in my mind or even talking out loud. All right, what do I think they’re going to say?

Matthew Jarvis:   I think they’re going to say, and I would imagine … You and I joked about this, I would imagine the worst case scenario, they’re going to say, “Matthew, we have to sell everything right now and I’m going to file a complaint, and I’m going to go to your house and kill your dog.” Like whatever extreme scenario I can imagine, I’m ready for that one. I’m ready to say, “Oh wow, I can see that you’re really upset. I totally understand that.” And then when their concern comes up and just say, “Hey Mike, I just want to hear from you that we’re still okay.” Oh, that’s an easy one to cover. So I’m prepared for like the worst one. So when the easy ones come, they’re easy.

Micah Shilanski:  Yeah. So I mean practice that I love it. Also practice with your team that’s going to be there. And this is one we did the week before because we had a team retreat before we started surge. And so the coronavirus and all was going on and we talked about it and we talked about the market volatility and we talked about the things that were going to happen and what’s our plan as a firm, because also I don’t want our relationship manager to get a phone call, have her panic because the client says the DOW just dropped 2000 points in one day, what do we do? And the relationship manager is like, “Oh crap, I have no idea.” That sounds scary, right? I want her educated that we have a plan and we know what to do. She’s not giving that advice to the client, but they need to know it, and understand it, and believe it just like your clients do.

Matthew Jarvis:   Totally. That’s really critical. I’m glad you brought that up, Micah, because if clients are calling in and they’re talking to your team and they can hear even a hint of concern, or hint of panic, or they call in … and in fact even calling in to my office, right? She got an email from a friend of hers was comparing the Coronavirus to the flu of 1918, and my first thought was to dismiss that like, well you mean 1918 when we didn’t know about germs and washing our hands, and didn’t have hospitals and clean water? Yeah, exact same thing.

Micah Shilanski:  Whatever.

Matthew Jarvis:   That doesn’t help somebody. So I said, “Well, let’s, let’s think about that one. Let’s talk about the flu of 1918. What if that did happen today? How long did that take to clear up? Oh, about two years. Okay, well we’ve got a five year reserve. So even if, nevermind the silliness of that comparison, even if it was the flu of 1918, we’re great. We’ll make it through that. Or we’ll die and I can’t hedge that. And I’m careful with that, Jess. But I put that out there too.

Micah Shilanski:  Yeah. You know, there’s always that apocalypse thing that could ever happen. It hasn’t happened yet, but you know, it could always happen and appreciating the client’s concern can not … and this is all client communication period, but appreciating their concern,,, regardless on how valid you think it is, that’s not the point. The point is really understanding where you’re at and where the client is at, and how the client’s concerns matter and you have to address all of those client concerns.

Matthew Jarvis:   Okay. Michael, let’s transition into action items. And I know we say this on every episode that this podcast is about taking action, but I’m surprised, and Micah I’d be curious your experience, I talked to a lot of advisors and they say, “Wow, we love the podcast, it’s amazing, but I haven’t implemented surge.” Or, “I love the podcast, but I’m still answering my own phones.” And Mike, I don’t know about you, these action plans aren’t just for fun, right? This isn’t like a cutesy thing.

Micah Shilanski:  Yeah, I know, yes, we have fun doing this, but I mean, come on, get off your butt. You really need to take action on these things. And if you’re going to say, and maybe this is going to call our membership, right, our TPR nation, but if you are going to say this is a great pod and we have great ideas, and you don’t implement them, come on, are you stupid? I mean not really just calling you out here, but why not? What is stopping you from taking this. Now if you think we have a bad idea, well quit listening. Totally fine. But if you like this, and again going back to a couple of other advisors we talked to, they just haven’t taken action on these things, and the whole purpose of us dialing is down to action items is not for you to do four things.

Micah Shilanski:  We’re giving three or four things out there as kind of the inventory, you need to take a commitment and implement these action items where there’s an accountability buddy you want to partner with. Something of that nature that says, hey, this is what I’m going to do this week. And if I don’t do it, here’s my check for $2,000 to X, Y, Z. Right? I mean, what’s that motivating factor that’s going to make you do this? But if you are serious about improving your practice, you must take action.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah. You know, and I don’t want to beat up on this one, but Micah you and I, after almost every podcast, we go back to our own practices and take action. And that’s what I noticed about elite practices. Elite practices, regardless of their revenue, are always looking and saying, all right, what can I do better? What can I do? What can I do better? And then implementing that. And so it’s about making those changes. So maybe action item number one is take action. Whether it’s specific to something we talked about this week, or just something we talked about on another episode. But commit to taking action in your practice and improving something every week, even if it’s a marginal improvement.

Micah Shilanski:  I love it. The second thing I’m going to say then, is be consistent. You need to be consistent with planning. Yes. Every client is unique in their own ways, but your process needs to be consistent, not your individual recommendation. So if you had one client sitting next to each other, they should be going through that same process, they should understand that same concept, and you should have consistent conversations. This not only helps with the way you’re going to communicate it, making sure you’re communicating it effectively. This gives a lot of confidence to clients that are going to be there and it creates a system that’s going to work. For example, buckets of money or guard rails, right? You have to educate your clients. You have to be consistent in those messages of, this is how it works and this is why you’re okay. Really important.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah. I’m going to highlight on that being consistent for our backstage pass members for this episode, we’ll upload a copy of the client newsletter that we just sent out. We use that client newsletter once a quarter. In fact, we’ll put two or three of them up for the backstage pass members so you can see how we’re delivering that message quarter after quarter. And we’re always highlighting, to Micah’s point, here’s the steps we’ve been taken to be prepared for whatever bad market comes next. Not if it comes, but when it comes.

Micah Shilanski:  Yeah, and you’ll see in our newsletter that we actually don’t talk about the stock markets.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah, that was a great plan. That’s a great plan. Next, action item, engage with your clients, be proactive. You know the clients, or at least have a sense for the clients that are a little on the edge. Don’t hesitate to reach out to them. Now we’re not going to reach out and say, “Hey, now I recommend selling.” It’s great to reach out and say, you know what? I was thinking about you the other day. Just wanted to touch basis. There’s a lot of craziness going on. Want to make sure that you’re still comfortable with the plan. Want to make sure you still remember about the bucket or the war chest. Just wanting to see if you had any questions or concerns. You’re good? Perfect.

Micah Shilanski:  So my rule of thumb on this one, Jarvis, and I’d love to hear yours are different, new clients that have transferred over assets, especially if we’ve got a crap load of cash. We put it to work in February. So new clients would definitely be one I would be chatting within this stage. And my worry wart clients. I got one or two that are still there that get concerned about this, that just want their hand held a little bit. And that’s okay, because you’re not teaching your clients to be proactive with market volatility, you’re responding to those client needs. So those are the two types of clients, if I didn’t have a meeting scheduled with them, I would be reaching out to them to make sure they’re good with the plan, et cetera. Again, not recommending sells, just want to make sure we’re comfortable with the recommendations.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yep, and specific to that, to make that a little more quantifiable, earlier in my career as I was growing my practice, one of my activities every week was to call five clients. Just to check in, just to see how they were doing. I would have a couple of talking points and I would say, “Hey, it’s Matthew”, and it was amazing how many more referrals that generated, how much more client satisfaction. So if you’re looking for a real quantifiable, just call five clients every week. “George, I was thinking about you. I want to make sure you’re doing good. Let you know that everything’s great, but if you have any questions for me, let me know.” Email does not count for that. You’ve got to call them. You need to be voice, it’s not eyeball to eyeball, but that’s a more personal touch.

Micah Shilanski:  I’m in total agreeance Okay, so there you have it. And of course your primary action item that we didn’t even talk about, which we should have is sign up for a backstage pass. Right? So important that’s going to be there. We do have open enrollment. We’re going to test this out for a little bit. We’re probably going to take it away, but right now there’s open enrollment inside of backstage pass. You can hit theperfectria.staging.wpengine.com, you can log on.

Micah Shilanski:  Not only do you get access to great extended content for podcasts, you get our 100k challenge, you get the webinars, tons of video tutorials, great information inside of there, and our Five X Promise. Which is, if the information that you receive in there, if you’re not able to take it in five X, your investment, five X what you’ve paid for the backstage pass, we’ll refund your last quarter, no questions asked. Period. Want to make sure you’re getting value out of this. And the second thing to do, remember, vote early, vote often. Rate us on the podcast, give us five star reviews. Really, really important. We love to have that. If you give us a five star review in iTunes and tag us on social, we’ll send you out some awesome swag.

Matthew Jarvis:   Yeah, but the last thing on there for backstage pass members, be sure you’re logging in each week. We’re adding a lot of great content. We just released our schedule of the next 500k challenge episodes. Mike and I are really fired up for those. So that’s really been an exciting thing. So Micah, I know also you are working for the live event, which is coming up quick. That is sold out-

Micah Shilanski:  That’s right.

Matthew Jarvis:   … but we’re excited for the live event. That’s going to be a lot of fun. That’s really going to be the segue for a big conference in 2021, so stay tuned for that.

Micah Shilanski:  Yeah, and every time Jarvis and I start going through the live event and kind of the schedule, I’m always getting fired up, be like, why do we have to wait? Why can’t we do it now? But there’s a lot of stuff going into it, but it’s going to be a ton of fun. So the people that signed up, it’s going to be awesome. It’s going to be tons of value for you. And if you missed it. Yeah. Really be thinking about 2021 when we talk about it.

Matthew Jarvis:   Perfect. Well, until next time, happy planning.

Micah Shilanski:  Happy planning.

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